Tablet games

[Guardtroll]

La Havre = $0.99.



But all the cool kids already had it.

[Guardtroll]

Coffeedrinker and I are into a Samurai game. It's functional, if not the greatest looking.

I was going to ask you about that NH game. I initiated a battle on my turn- you got elimited in round two, then sometime in round one I think, I thought mine crashed then I did not see it again when it started up. We could very well have eliminated each other.

Harb and I kinda finished you off Eric. I had a single junk placement and the final battle was in Harb's turn. The final battle itself was totally ineffectual. So Harb held his bloodied lead.

Harb - 3
GT - 1
Eric - X

[boathouselooper]

Eric - thanks for the considered and rational response. Too often Internet discussion forums are full of snark and douche-baggery, so it is refreshing to have a real discussion.

I understand your points and I understand your position on the view of long games done asynchronously. You made me reflect on what it is I find trying for these games. I LIKE Le Havre, Puerto Rico and Caylus, especially when played face to face. So I had to ask myself, what is it that I don't like online? And maybe "don't like" isn't entirely accurate because I still like the games.

I think it comes down to two things: Pace and interface.

But let me start with one of my favorite asynch games, Ascension. Everything about this game kicks ass. Even though it is asynchronous, you can have many games going at once, quickly take your turn and go to the next game. When taking a turn in Ascension I almost always feel like I've accomplished something. Draw a card, put a construct in play, kill a monster and buy a card. Woo! Then you have the turns in which you can play nearly your entire deck. Sweeeet. The interface is also intuitive and easy to understand. I can see what the other players did with the color coding around the cards and recreate their turn by viewing the turn log. So even though it is asynchronous, the pace feels quick and it is easy to see what happened and easy to get around. I don't know how many games you have going but I usually try to have at least half a dozen running at once. I'd do more but I don't want to spam my game center friends with TOO many requests.

The pace of Le Havre is tortuous. "Oh hey, it's my turn.. oh. Feed my workers. Joy." Wait a day. Next turn, "Guess I'll take the fish offer." Wait a day, "Guess I'll go to the Local court, again." Wait a day. "Guess I'll take the Wood offer. Cool, now I can build a building. Wait, where did it go? Hmm, someone built it. Wait, was I going to do that anyway?" And so on. There is a nice 'this is what happened since your last turn' screen when you enter the game but with a game like Le Havre, which has so many options, the length of time between decisions is too much (I think). The other part of Le Havre that kills me is the interface. Now, there are a lot of buildings to know and look at in the game and trying to cram that all on the tablet screen is incredible. I'm constantly tapping other players cards to see what buildings they have. Then if I want to compare a few I have to jump back and forth from one to the other, always waiting for the slow display to splay - and hoping that I don't accidentally mis-tap and have to start the search over again.

Puerto Rico isn't bad. My complaint on their interface is not having a pop up label or something on the buildings already purchased. They all look alike. So on my turn I'll look and think, "Okay, what building is that?" And I have to go to the building screen and match up the building design. The production buildings have the goods symbol so that is nice, and the market has a little +1 or something, but the rest, ugh. That is so much easier in person. Maybe there is display option that I am missing or something? Puerto Rico feels faster than Le Havre, too.

Caylus has a great interface. Probably the best after Ascension. It is just the way the game is designed - asynch play is just slow. Place a guy. Wait. Place a guy. Wait. Place a guy. Wait. With just the two of us, if we each placed one worker per day, how long would the game last? Assuming we place 4 of the 5 on average, that's four days per turn. Then there is the waiting when a player has to decide between goods or choosing to move the Provost. So it would be a week or more per turn. So in this case, the pace of the game causes me to lose interest. However, I can easily see the items that other players have and can somewhat anticipate their moves. The fly out screen is nice and has everything organized very well.

I realize I don't have any solid arguments other than, "I don't care for the pace or interface," but that's all I've got. But then again I'm not trying to convince anyone that I'm right or that my position is better than anyone else. It is just a personal preference, I guess. You are correct in that there is a small investment of time each day for these long games, and if that allows a person to really understand the game then it is worth it. For me, in a game like Le Havre I might lose interest in the game if it takes too long because after three weeks I might have forgotten what my initial strategy was. So instead of sticking to a plan, now I am wondering what it was past BHL was up to and cursing him for getting current BHL into a never ending cycle of taking loans and heading to the local court.

However, all that being said, I'm not about to stop playing these games asynchronously. As you say, it eliminates the wait at the table for another player to think about his or her move. It also removes all the fiddly stuff. I do enjoy the social aspect of sitting at the table and shootin' the shit and for me, gaming is mostly about the social side and playing to have fun and not winning (as evidenced by my win / loss record). If it was fun, it was a win (and this could be a whole other thread about self-selection and group dynamics and meta-gaming [what do you mean I like to do that? ha!] and a slew of other things that constitute "fun" and so on).

At any rate, just my two cents.

[Eric Holdridge]

BHL you make a great point about not being able to follow the flow of the game to either maintain a plan you wanted to pursue or react to everyone else. Many of the games just do not always make it obvious and in-your-face what happened off-turn, so I know what you mean there. It would be especially hard to keep track of such plans absent some sort of chat or notes if you are in a bunch of them like I am. I cannot think of a good solution for that other than planning to play the games realtime on IOS once in awhile, which I am willing to do, so see my suggestion below.

I am never very good with the interfaces, but one trick I know with PR is to drag the little ? in the lower right corner up onto a building and it shows you what it is and what it does. I find that pretty helpful.

But I see what you mean about the pace, I cannot be bothered to go back & read the entire game log for say, Le Havre, in order to get the context for each of my turns, and I am not sure the app lets you do that anyway. I guess I just do not care so much if I make a bad move in an IOS game or if I am more reactive than in person. I do care in person, but for whatever reason trying a weird strategy or taking risks in on-line games does not bother me. In some way in my head that I cannot really explain, it does not seem to "count". I feel that way about Yucata and all the on-line gaming sites like BSW as well. I have found that my play is much more "loose" and sometimes even "risky" on-line.

My suggestion is this: You have convinced me that some of these games are not at their best using async. I used to have a standing time with some of my IL friends to get on BSW every week and play games, but that has fallen by the wayside. I am more than willing to set aside some time to play these IOS games in a more realtime format if anyone is interested. Either setting up some PolyU time every week if there is enough interest, or just PM me with a game and time and I will try to make it work. Maybe that will allow us to get a little more enjoyment out of the apps.

Just an idea.

Cheers!

[boathouselooper]

Well, this is interesting. I didn't think this project would hit its goal, but with three days left SolForge has been funded. This is from the creators of Ascension and Magic: The Gathering. It is a digital trading card game and it looks pretty sweet. I wasn't going to back it at first, but now I just might.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/196 ... game/posts

Also, I was going to link this on the Kickstarter list, but that is listed under board games. This game is strictly a digital game. Should we have a list for digital kickstarter projects similar to the board game list?

[Seripmav]

It's fine. Just start a new thread under video games if you want.

[Guardtroll]

Ticket to Ride, Europe. -Pocket edition

Free right now.




Just sayin.

[Captain Yid]

Thanks, GT!

[Harbinger]

It's not on sale, and don't know if it ever will, but has anyone else tried the Kingdom Builder app? I know there is not a lot of love for the game in general, and the initial app release had some bugs, but I have been playing for a few days and it works great (save for one new bug- moved houses still show as if there hadn't been moved- but it doesn't effect game play much and I expect will be resolved quickly, as it only took a week to put out a 1.1 version).

The only caveat is that the async is through BSW. Have not tried that yet. Any thoughts?

Also Stone Age is out. Haven't got that yet.

[Coffeedrinker]

Also worth noting that at the minute Ascension is free; I like the kingdom builder app, though i'm still getting my head round it. The Stone Age app is nice though it's UI steps away from the boardgame a little. This makes it very user friendly but a bit of an initial disconnect if you're used to the yucata version

[Eric Holdridge]

Thanks for the heads up. I just got itunes gift cards for x-mas so I am going to download Kingdom Builder for sure and put Stone Age on my wish list for if I ever tire of the Magic app. Once I do I will give Kingdom Builder a go. Definitely one of my favorite games of late. Cheers!

[Skittlebrau]

Ticket to Ride is also 1.99 right now, and For the Win from Stronghold is .99

[Eric Holdridge]

Well, this is interesting. I didn't think this project would hit its goal, but with three days left SolForge has been funded. This is from the creators of Ascension and Magic: The Gathering. It is a digital trading card game and it looks pretty sweet. I wasn't going to back it at first, but now I just might.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/196 ... game/posts

Also, I was going to link this on the Kickstarter list, but that is listed under board games. This game is strictly a digital game. Should we have a list for digital kickstarter projects similar to the board game list?

Do not know if you ended up backing this or not, BHL or if it fell off your radar, but I have been watching it with interest. Today a free preview (not even beta) version for the ipad was released.

Thread on this is here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/1 ... ent3420169

Video overview of the game here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 6c8GHfDJbs

I am downloading the video and the app as we speak.

Anyone who backed it or who knows more about it? I would love to hear more about it. Or if you download the app too, let me know what you think.

Cheers!

[boathouselooper]

I didn't end up backing it because I felt the price points for backers really didn't offer much. I figured if it was a great game I could then pay to play.

I'll have to download it and give it a try!

[Guardtroll]

I found an downloaded Kingdom Builder and SolForge.

The Stone Age and Stronghold games I found are not the ones I think you meant. Is there a name variation, or could you please provide a link?



And San Juan dropped in price.

It's a sign!

[Eric Holdridge]

Stone age is not a universal app so make sure you are not filtering out iphone only games and search for:

"stone age: the board game"

I read that later updates will make it universal and you will not have to re-buy it for ipad, but I do not know that for a fact.

For for the win I am not that familiar with it but searching for "stronghold" did not help me. I just searched for "For the win" and it popped up (if you are searching in one of the app-shopper apps rather than itunes itself which likes to give you multiple results trying to get you to buy more things). If you do not like to search apps anywhere outside of itunes use this search and it is the only result i get:

"for the win tasty minstrel"

Also playdek has Fluxx and Penny Arcade Gamers vs. Evil (a deckbuilder I know nothing about) out now.

Hope that helps!

[Eric Holdridge]

I thought this "gift guide" link was really helpful to remind me of some of the great apps out there. I totally forgot that Alien Frontiers was even out! Does anyone have it? Is it good?

Anyway, I will just leave this here.

http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/15461 ... guide-2012

Cheers!

[boathouselooper]

SolForge is pretty interesting. The game is certainly stripped down but it gives a pretty decent feel for how it will be once it is finished. The tutorial is good too.

[Harbinger]

I have Alien Frontiers and it a really solid implementation, I enjoy it .

I also got Solforge and it is decent as is. I love the artwork and the upgrading cards. A couple things that weren't clear: What lets your character level up? How does the 'physical' introduction of the upgraded cards work? Meaning, are they added to your deck but you can only use them if your at the right level or is there a side pool that you add in when you get to the right level? I guess that is irrelevant. Anyway just trying to understand how it works as it wasn't clear from the tutorial- though it did crash on me, but it seemed to be toward the end.

[Eric Holdridge]

I also got Solforge and it is decent as is. I love the artwork and the upgrading cards. A couple things that weren't clear: What lets your character level up? How does the 'physical' introduction of the upgraded cards work? Meaning, are they added to your deck but you can only use them if your at the right level or is there a side pool that you add in when you get to the right level? I guess that is irrelevant. Anyway just trying to understand how it works as it wasn't clear from the tutorial- though it did crash on me, but it seemed to be toward the end.

My understanding is this:

1- when you play a level 1 card, a level 2 of that card goes to the discard pile (it does show a little animation of this on the right side, but it is quick), when you play a level 2 card, a level 3 of that card goes to the discard pile. When you play level 3, a level 3 goes to the discard pile. It is implied that there will be cards that may go beyond level 3 in the future but I do not think there are any yet. When the lower level card that you played to a lane "dies" that lower level card does not get "shuffled" back in. That is what makes the decision of what to play so interesting. Do you play a card for its current effects or do you "invest" in a card that will not help you much now, relying on the effect that will occur when/if you draw the level 2 version.

2 - the "shuffling" happens after every 4th turn when you, the player "level up" - there is an animation for your avatar in the lower right hand corner showing that you have leveled up. After every 4th turn that causes a "shuffling" of the cards so all of the upgraded cards are now part of your draw pile, so you will start to randomly see the level 2 cards (and then level 3, etc) as part of your card draws. I found a good explanation of this in a forum I was watching to try to understand the rules myself. It stated:

"Example: During the first 4 turns, Player 2 will draw 20 cards and play 8 cards. Therefore, at the end of turn 4, Player 2 will have 8 Level 2 cards in his discard pile and 12 Level 1 cards in his discard pile. Player 2 then mixes these cards together with the 20 Level 1 cards that were not drawn during the first 4 turns. All of these 40 cards are shuffled together to form a new draw pile. This means that on turn 5, Player 2 has a chance of drawing some of the 8 Level 2 cards in his deck. (Note that before turn 5, it is not possible to draw a Level 2 card.) Turns 5 and 9 are very important milestones because they are the first turns on which it is possible to draw a Level 2 (or Level 3) card. Therefore, the game UI that was demonstrated at PAX included a "level up" indicator that measured how close a player was to the next re-shuffle. (That is, the indicator filled up at the end of turn 4 and the end of turn 8.)"

Hope that helps. I am enjoying it too, but I have only played through the tutorial and watched the video and played 2 test games. But I can really see the possibilities. Since there is no gaming tonight, I am hoping to take it for a more detailed "test drive" tonight if time permits.

Cheers!